Volume 10, Second Memorandum

Or, it can be anyone’s monologue.

There was something I came to notice as I continued reading.

To be more specific, it was that I had gone back to the beginning.

These novels certainly did feel similar to me. They even made me think that they were close to my true nature, or perhaps, my disposition that could very well be called malignant.

However, that wasn’t it.

A different book after the other, I continued searching, without growing weary, unable to give in. Over and over again, I went through “No Longer Human” and “Run, Melos!”

However, even so, there was something decisively different.

No matter the literary master, no matter the masterpiece, they weren’t close at all.

For the other party to have addressed you, to have sympathized with you, be something entirely different was nothing more than despair itself.

Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven.

I couldn’t forgive myself for having expectations, for thinking I had understood, for thinking I was understood.

Compared to the existence as described in “No Longer Human”, I was much more diminutive, cowardly, and vulgar. Dazai didn’t realize that he was plagued with a much paltrier problem.

Then, didn’t that make me less than something human? Didn’t that make me far more lonely and apprehensive than the tyrant king?

Further. To think I utilized influential literature for the sake of attaining answers to my own problems and for the sake of something so extremely selfish and personal made me disgusted with myself. Just how shallow, just how foolish, and just how unsightly I was. The reason why I picked out these books weren’t for purification or for my own growth.

All I wanted was to blame myself by way of the truth. I wanted the farce of  altruistic self-interest to be seen through.

With the eyes that looked this way from outside.

That’s why I had expectations.

That maybe if it was this book or that maybe if it was that person who was unusually more sensitive to the evils of people, I thought, perhaps, they might find me. Perhaps they might see right through me.

Yet, despite looking at the things that were so close to me, despite seeing right through everything else, I was the only one who wasn’t looked at.

It was so much more painful than being admonished and being looked down on.


Chapter 6 Top Chapter 7

78 thoughts on “Volume 10, Second Memorandum

    • I have to say that this LN author is an incredible writer. Usually, it is very difficult to catch any of the subtle nuances of the story when you are dealing with a translation. However, the fact that I can catch at least even a few means his writing must be crafted very skillfully.

      I think its Hayama’s monologue for a few reasons:

      For the other party to have addressed you, to have sympathized with you, be something entirely different was nothing more than despair itself. Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven”. “I couldn’t forgive myself for having expectations, for thinking I had understood, for thinking I was understood.

      I think this points back to when Hayama and Hikki had the double date and He assumed that Hikki wanted to be saved. He had tried to repay Hikki and help him because he thought that he understood him. I can’t think of any instance where this could refer to Haruno.

      Second is when the character clearly refers to wanting to be saved, but being ignored by Hikki:

      That’s why I had expectations.

      That maybe if it was this book or that maybe if it was that person who was unusually more sensitive to the evils of people, I thought, perhaps, they might find me. Perhaps they might see right through me. Yet, despite looking at the things that were so close to me, despite seeing right through everything else, I was the only one who wasn’t looked at.

      The last is that it becomes obvious at the end that the person doing the monologue is reviewing themselves in comparison to Hikki.
      This line shows it for sure:

      It was so much more painful than being admonished and being looked down on.

    • I believe its hayama’s, if u read the prev chapter again, in the end haruno says something like: hayama wants to be found and here the person says that “someone might find me”

  1. Feels like it is Hayama’s. Is he…. looking for ‘help’ …? Waiting for someone to reach up…? Like example a certain batman with rotten eyes….? If that is true…. Hayama is actually a very pitiful existence…. More or less Yukino with ‘good’ impression while deep inside a ‘rotten’ too…? Damn. Cant wait for moooar

  2. Hi all, here is my first post as a big fan of Oregairu novel. Thanks Spyro for sharing your pleasure with all of us.

    Well, I’m not a native English so there may be some parts of the LN that I did not fully understand. But about this memorandum, after reading it twice I get the feeling that it may be Yukino’s thinking.
    I mean Yukino is the one who suffers of feeling like being a merely replacement for her so perfect sister in every aspect. And so far, everyone only expect her to be more like Haruno, and they just don’t accept her the way she is except Hachiman and Yui of course.
    To finish, the way the character speaks here about itself is quite harsh “lonely” “tyrant king” “foolish” “unsightly” “self-blame” etc. If I we really don’t know who that “someone” is in that memorandum I’d prefer to bet on Yukino rather than Hayato lol. My apologies for sharing such selfish thoughts and if I’m out of topic.

  3. It may not be that Hayama wants 8man to reach out its more likely he’s referring to Yukino cause she also has the ability to see through people’s facade. He wants and expects yukino to save him.

    • thats unlikely yukino. “That person” refers to hachiman.

      how u explain this line:

      “Yet, despite looking at the things that were so close to me, despite seeing right through everything else, I was the only one who wasn’t looked at”

      1.Yukino is knew hayama since childhood, and likely knew what person hayama is

      2.why hikki didnt know hayama facade from start? He know haruno facade right away though. He always said hayama is a good guy, without looking deeper. the only logical answer is hikki didnt give a shit about hayama.

      This too explain the rest of monologue i mentioned above.

  4. That if it was this book or that if it was that person who was many times more sensitive to the wicked nature of people, I thought, perhaps, they might find me. Perhaps they might see right through me.
    Yeah definitely think he’s referring to yukino

  5. So it’s Hayama, in the end.
    “You… You help people because you want someone to help you, right?” // 8-5.
    He just projected his own feelings on 8man. Looks like he desperately waiting Yukinon asks him about career path.
    And Haruno… She might be a real caring onee-san, in her own style.

  6. I think… this is Haruno not Hayama.

    The self-degradation of the person speaking is pretty specific. Maybe malignant isn’t the correction translation, but it usually means someone who causes harm to others. The only person in this series who really does show this type of behavior is Haruno.

    “Then, didn’t that make me less than something human? Didn’t that make me far more lonely and apprehensive than the tyrant king?”

    From what I recall in the series Haruno is always idolized or revered, shes never seen as someone who can be placed upon equal footing with the other characters.

    “All I wanted was the truth for self-blame. I wanted my buffoonery of self-aggrandizement to be seen through.”

    This doesn’t sound like Hayama at all, he was never one to boast his success or popularity.

    Eitherway just some bits of this passage reminded me more of Haruno than Hayama.

    • Totally agree. The self aggrandizement part, the part about hoping to have someone who is sensitive to wickedness(hikki) and could see throuhg the affairs of things (a monster of logic, as she said herself), her interest in literature by danzai…the way she said, hayama has expectations too, implying, at least to an extent, that she herself has expectations jus as in this monologue…i mean cmon guys its haruno!!!

      Only problem is, if it really is haruno then its putting an absurdley unexpected and akwardly fitting twist to the story. I mean isnt her character jus a supporting one,and yet this monologue had more weight to it than the entire chapter. It confuses me cause what then does this mean for the story line if she requires saving as well???????

    • I agree, I think it’s Haruno, for many of the same reasons.
      The main character of “No Longer Human” really resembles Haruno’s disposition, as a person who puts up a mask of buffoonery and goes about carelessly doing what he wants, searching for something meaningful or interesting. And the earlier monologue seemed like it could’ve been from Haruno’s perspective. Plus, at the end of this one, the narrator mentions how it’s much more painful to be ignored or accepted (as a perfect daughter or a “convinient woman”) than it is to be admonished or looked down upon (which she and her mother seem to do frequently to Yukino, and which people frequently do to 8man).

  7. it is clearly hayama hayato
    at final para he clearly describes hikigaya that he was able to clearly see his friends and other’s affiars and their wicked nature but fails to see his (hayama) true self

    • Seriously doubt its yukino might just be but i feel like they are either talking about yukino or hachiman so it is most likely not yukino

    • I’m actually open to the possibility that it’s Haruno’s monologue, mostly because of the use of “tyrant king” and “self-aggrandizement” which don’t describe Hayama at all. He’s the type of person that does seem to want someone to see through their outer shell and see their true personality, but looking at how the person is using certain allusions in the volume, it sounds more like Haruno. Especially when the person hopes that their “buffoonery of self-aggrandizement to be seen through.” which would mean there’s more than meets the eye behind Haruno’s words and actions.

      The monologue could also possibly be Yukino’s or Hayama’s, but I think that after looking back, they were both greatly influenced by Haruno and their own family’s upbringing, so Yukino, Hayama, and Haruno all have similar ways of thinking but have different problems (which brings up the part about similarities and differences, which sounds a comparison between Yukino and Haruno, maybe Haruno to their mother, and Hayama to Yukino and Haruno). They all could apply to the monologue since they share some of what the monologue is talking about.

      P.S Though I would be surprised if its Hayama since I never took him to be into literature for those kind of reasons.

    • Self-aggrandizement might not have been the best word to use for the translation. It’s more like helping others with underlying motives instead. More along the lines of selfish altruism (hey, oxymorons!). Don’t forget Hayama brought up “Run, Melos!” to Yui earlier in the volume when Hachiman called Haruno a tyrant king.

    • I almost forgot about that, since Hayama also knows about “Run, Melos”, but I never considered it since he was more of a sports jock than a literary reader. I guess what threw me off the most was the person in the monologue comparing themselves to the tyrant king, which I never thought of Hayama as one, unless Hayama is talking about how he has a great influence on his group then maybe I’m taking it too literal, and this is how Hayama defines what makes him like the tyrant king, trying to please everybody and keeping up with everybody’s expectations but hiding his true thoughts and personality (Almost off topic I’m more perplexed to what kind of person Hayama truly is; the others who know him think of Hayama and Hachiman as total opposite but he feels similar to Hachiman).

    • Hayama’s actually quite accomplished academically, too. He’s not second in their year for nothing after Yukino. He’s probably better than Hachiman at most things, too.

  8. “Didn’t that make me far more lonely and apprehensive than the tyrant king?”

    This sounds like the person is comparing him/herself to tyrant king. Not like she/he’s referring to himself.

    Plot twist: Its yui.

  9. It would be interesting if the person in question is Yui, unfortunately she lacks(or does she!!?) the cognitive ability and literary skills to have this kind of a monologue.

  10. Also, I know it was a joke (referring to “Plot twist: Its yui.”) but it acted as a stimulus to make me write something pointless. It’s funny how this statement pretty pointless too and has nothing to do the chapter! <- this was redundant too ……. well maybe I'll stop now.

  11. I’m not even going to guess at this one. I think the clues to the person are probably in the books referenced – I think both of them are in the Japanese public school curriculum, or at least very well known and likely to be understood by this novel’s audience, like To Kill a Mockingbird and The Catcher in the Rye would be to a US audience.

    Anyway, hoping someone who’s read those and maybe knows a little bit of critical theory can give us a breakdown, because I feel I’m not understanding what this little chapter is about, at all.

    • You can watch Aoi bungaku series, made by Madhouse. It features both No longer human and Run, Melos!. It gave me a good understanding of both pieces (you can google other parts). Itd be pointless to think too deeply of this because as characters in this novel deceive themselves, the author is probably doing the same thing to us (what i wanna say is that the chances of this being either Haruno or Hayama are equal at this point).

    • “I wanted the farce of altruistic self-interest to be seen through.”

      Doesn’t sound like Hachiman: Hachiman seems more sincere with his assistance now. This statement makes Haruno/Hayama more likely to be the speaker in question.

  12. While I think it probably is Hayama, I feel like there is a slight possibility of being the ‘fujoshi’ girl, as odd as it would be with how little presence she’s had this book.

  13. All of these contrasting speculations, discussions, and polite thank you’s; Oregairu sure has a nice fanbase. Quality translations, interesting posts… This would be paradise if not for the wait. I want moarr!! But in all seriousness, I prefer waiting to crappy translations, so keep on going at your own pace, Spyro! One more thing, to anyone who reads this post, who is the character you can relate to the most? Why?

  14. I think it’s Hayama for the simple fact that several times throughout the story he has gotten irritated with Hikagaya about catagorizing him as a “good person”. Indicating that he doesn’t think the same about himself.
    There’s also that thing during the trip to Chiba that Hayama mentioned not helping someone who was ostracized from his group in elementary school (part of me thinks he is referring to Hikagaya), so maybe he just doesn’t see himself as good.

    • I’m pretty sure when Hayama says that he is referring to Yukino’s troubles during elementary school.

    • I think it’s Hayama because most of the people that have read the entire LN in Japanese (including the third memorandum) seem to think it’s Hayama.

  15. Just gonna add this thought. If this is indeed Hayama, and this memorandum along with the first one is his , then I believe he could be on the verge of committing suicide. I mean these are very dark thoughts, and if his friends aren’t trying to understand him or have any proper conversations with him (kind of pathetic if they call themselves friends), this could inevitably cause Hayama to kill himself. I mean he isn’t trying to form a likeable version of himself within his head (like Hacihman), and is openly rebuking himself for his very existence. P.s. I doubt this is Haruno. She does not seem this insecure. I doubt she has a conscience that is bothered by her actions and façade: she’s been acting like a bitch since she was a child for goodness sake.

  16. I think each memorandum is another character. So we have hachiman and (possibly) hayaman. So will the next be yukinoshita? -3-

  17. No Longer Human (Ningen Shikkaku) – A high school student becomes lost and alienated. Despondent and aimless, he falls into a cycle of self abuse, depression and drugs that taints his life for years. Told in four chapters, each chapter deals with a different point in his life and the final chapter leaves him standing alone – an empty and hollow caricature of his former self.
    Read more at http://myanimelist.net/anime/7193/Aoi_Bungaku_Series#O38WyzQFxIkR7kUs.99

    Run, Melos! (Hashire, Melos!) – An updated retelling of a classic Greek tale of the story of Damon and Pythias. The most prominent theme of “Run, Melos!” is unwavering friendship. Despite facing hardships, the protagonist Melos does his best to save his friend’s life, and in the end his efforts are rewarded.
    Read more at http://myanimelist.net/anime/7193/Aoi_Bungaku_Series#O38WyzQFxIkR7kUs.99

    To add to Run, Melos! summary: Melos is a naïve young shepherd with a sense of equity. The land in which he lives is ruled by Dionys, a tyrant king who because of his distrust of people, has killed many people and even his own family members. When Melos hears about the King’s deeds one day, he becomes enraged. He decides to assassinate the King, and so he sneaks into the castle with a knife, but is caught and arrested. Melos pleads with the King to postpone his execution and give him three days so that he can attend his younger sister’s wedding. The King agrees, but on one condition: that Melos’ friend Selinuntius is left as a hostage, and if Melos does not return in three days, he will be executed instead of Melos.

    After the wedding is over Melos hurries back to the city. Along the way he encounters many tribulations, such as a broken bridge due to the overflowing of the river and attacks by bandits. All of these things exhaust him, and he nearly gives up, but then continues to run for the sake of his friend’s life.

    At sundown Melos finally arrives at the city, just in time to save his friend Selinuntius. He apologizes to Selinuntius for his treachery, and Selinuntius apologizes for ever doubting him. The King is moved by the display and decides to let Melos go with impunity. (Wikipedia.org)

    To understand this memorandum better, I decided to check out the summaries of both stories but I still haven’t really found a complete answer just yet.


    There was something I came to notice as I continued reading.

    To be more specific, it was that I had gone back to the beginning.

    (His personal Hell keeps looping over and over again? He’s rereading these books or that he hasn’t made progress since the beginning of his social life?)

    These novels certainly did feel similar to me. They even made me think that they were close to my true nature, or perhaps, my disposition that could very well be called malignant.

    However, that wasn’t it.

    (He cannot be compared to the drug addict in No Longer Human which is one problem versus the unwavering friendship theme in the Run Melos! story)

    A different book after the other, I continued searching, without growing weary, unable to give in. Over and over again, I went through “No Longer Human” and “Run, Melos!”

    However, even so, there was something decisively different.

    No matter the literary master, no matter the masterpiece, they weren’t close at all.

    (The stories are not capturing his situation which stories could often do for this writer. The stories could not offer a solution for his/her situation. Why did he/she only mention these two?)

    For the other party to have addressed you, to have sympathized with you, be something entirely different was nothing more than despair itself.

    (“Be something entirely different” could be people acting fake in front of the writer. Addressing and sympathizing though sounds like people being overly familiar with the writer and not seeing how the writer may or may not like the treatment.)

    Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven.

    I couldn’t forgive myself for having expectations, for thinking I had understood, for thinking I was understood.

    (He/she talks about having obvious differences and similarities but it seems he’s more focused on the differences. Between people, this causes problems and possibly made interactions sour. People may have grown jealous of his/her higher stats like grades, looks, etc. When he/she said, “I couldn’t forgive myself for having expectations,” this really does feel like Hayama speaking. As people commented before, Hayama has said this in the past, directed at Hachiman. There was the volume 8 Orimoto date scene as far as I remember. His expectations could be that everyone should get along, HIkki and Hayama become friends, Hikki’s solution to a problem was less socially suicidal or Hayama himself being understood. This confused me though cuz at what point did his interactions with a character lead to the misunderstanding? Haruno sees through Hayama and called him a “boring guy that could do everything.” Yukino may have the answer. Hachiman is often blunt with his answers when telling Hayama that he doesn’t wanna hang out. Could it be Tobe?)

    Compared to the existence as described in “No Longer Human”, I was much more diminutive, cowardly, and vulgar. Dazai didn’t realize that he was plagued with a much paltrier problem.

    Then, didn’t that make me less than something human? Didn’t that make me far more lonely and apprehensive than the tyrant king?

    (Self-depreciation and it comes to mind how Hayama has before said, “I’m not a nice guy” to Hachiman when they were alone. Still, Hachiman did call Haruno the “tyrant king” in the previous chapters so it could be a jab at that. Not only that, people pointed out how Haruno mentioned these specific stories. For both Haruno and Hayama, both are thought to be outgoing and intersting and stuff. Confidence hides the insecurity)

    Further. To think I utilized influential literature for the sake of attaining answers to my own problems and for the sake of something so extremely selfish and personal made me disgusted with myself. Just how shallow, just how foolish, and just how unsightly I was. The reason why I picked out these books weren’t for purification or for my own growth.

    All I wanted was to blame myself by way of the truth. I wanted the farce of altruistic self-interest to be seen through.

    (Ahhhh this could go either way. I’m still leaning towards Hayama because he is a guy that can’t say no to a request. He wants people to know why he has that habit. Haruno offers her help OFTEN to her old high school, interfering with YUKINO and she wants to be seen through by Yukino (?) possibly. I doubt she wants Yukino to see Haruno’s true intentions though because in volume 6, she wanted to push Yukino to go beyond her limits.)

    With the eyes that looked this way from outside.

    (Rotten dead fish eyes?)

    That’s why I had expectations.

    That maybe if it was this book or that maybe if it was that person who was unusually more sensitive to the evils of people, I thought, perhaps, they might find me. Perhaps they might see right through me.

    Yet, despite looking at the things that were so close to me, despite seeing right through everything else, I was the only one who wasn’t looked at.

    It was so much more painful than being admonished and being looked down on.

    (Sad. Anyways, this writer tried to find something/someone to break through a barrier and to call out on the “evils” of the writer. That expectation fell. This person can see right through people. A sense of social awareness is here and this brings back Haruno often seeing through Sagamin back in volume 6 and she also saw through Isshiki in last chapter. Hayama also sees through people. He said he didn’t like Orimoto because of how she and her friend talked to Hachiman back in volume 8. But this persona actively finds and sees through people and he/she is crying for help. This person suddenly compares this, “no one can understand me/see through me/see the real me” as being more painful than being hated. This is a possible comparison to the stories in “No Longer Human” where the main character is just a hollow shell that is rejected by society or Hachiman since Hachiman stated that he is part of the lowest class in social order.)

  18. It’s Hayato… You can also remember the conversation with Ebina when she says something about Hikigaya and Hayato… she was joking on the homo part but not on the “needing” part… i think what Ebina said is one of the biggest hints

  19. Hmm.. I don’t know who it might be, but some ideas if it was Yukino…

    “Altruistic self-interest” could apply to Hayama, but it could also apply to Yukino. It’s her altruistic “facade”(?) that started the club in the first place, right? In fact, do we actually know why the Service Club was started..? At the beginning, is was said by Yukino… But could it be a cover for something? No facts, so it’s all just baseless theory.

    The issue of understanding and being understood was never really resolved amoung the Service Club.

    The one who can see the “evils” is obviously Hachiman. The one speaking here wanted to be found and understood; yet, despite having that “one sensitive to evil” seeing through everyone else (Like Haruno).

  20. I think the person in reference here is Yukino, of course like the guy who wrote before i think the person who can see the evils is Hachiman. Maybe when it talks about “For the other party to have addressed you, to have sympathized with you, be something entirely different was nothing more than despair itself” . The party are yuigahama and hikigaya, especialy Hiki who have a lot of thing in common whit her but at the same time are very diferent.

  21. Well, Watari wrote this monologue about someone who want to be understood for his/her doing/being.

    This “person” is talking about himself. Let’s analyse this owner of monologue….

    - This "person" read literature "for the sake of attaining answers to my own problems and for the sake of something so extremely selfish and personal".
    
    - This "person" is acting for altruistic perfectly because he wants people will see through his selfish being someday. Finally he can find the one "who was unusually more sensitive to the evils of people", but that person didn't has any attention to see through the owner of this monologue at all. So until now, this person was unheeded.
    
    - "The farce of altruistic self-interest" that this person is playing is too perfect and made people who watch think this person is good, perfect but everything is wrong. This person is so selfish in deep angle. 
    

    “altruistic” & “self-interest” are 2 sides of the same coin. In this case, it can’t be separate.

    All of this is about “Person”. Want to be understood for his own satisfaction. Do anything as people expect for his own selfish. If you understand all of these, look for a character of this LN who has name means “PERSON” & you will find out who is the owner of this monologue.

    ps. for the owner of 1st & 3rd monologue, I wrote some analysis who should be the owner of those monologue. Please go to those monologue and read my comments.

    and if you want the name of the owner of this monologue, I will spoil you.
    1
    2
    3
    4
    5
    6
    7
    8
    9
    10

    Hayama Haya”to”

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